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Post by sammiya on Jan 6, 2015 20:57:18 GMT
Both schools sound like they'd be a lot of fun, but Salem does seem like it'd be a bit more easier to handle, in a way. (Though, I'd see it as more possible that there's at least two schools: One for the West coast and Salem. Perhaps three for the middle region, or even four, one for the north, one for the south, Salem, and west coast. Gerd, can you imagine if they treated quidditch the way the football fans treat college football...)
But Africa only has ONE school of witchcraft/wizardy? What the heck. klgklgklr. There's a TON of tension in those areas from different beliefs and cultural differences, and the students would NOT get along all that well. Bad planning, orz.
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Post by mdf2711 on Jan 6, 2015 23:03:35 GMT
It does seem odd but unless we wish to create separate schools worth noting, it just seems easier to have a single school. I trust it would be plenty big though to account for the country/continent's size. Personally I was under the assumption it would just be American though, are we including Canada and Mexico and Latin America now? (If it's in reference to what I said, I was mostly talking about the old Spanish territories in southwest America during colonial times~)
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Post by fishstyx on Jan 7, 2015 0:27:30 GMT
Somehow it seems odd to me that Salem would serve ALL of North America, but then again who knows...
Could also do House Corey for Giles Corey if we want to avoid House Good. I do like the idea of drawing from other types of magic (ie voodoo) that Kaiser mentioned! I agree with minicat. Even just the U.S. is too huge to make a school of. Unless we're planning for the school to be more of a town than a school (like a college sort of layout), there isn't enough room to fit all the nation's witches and wizards, much less the entire North American continent. Of course, we could do a town setting to fit more people, and have each house actually live in their own separate house, not dormitories. As for the names of the houses, I have no idea. Sorry.
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Post by urmille on Jan 7, 2015 1:34:09 GMT
I feel like we would have to keep the RP within one school, or else it might get confusing. Maybe there could be exchange students from other schools around the world (or even just the U.S) but the actual roleplaying would be contained to Salem's school. Perhaps Salem could be considered the largest and most prestigious school in the US but hint to other schools around the country? It would make sense that the largest campus would be centered where witchcraft/wizardry 'first came to light'. (The last half of this comment is really only applicable if we are RPing in a more modern setting, though.)
I have no input on the house ideas either, sorry!
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Post by Wyndi on Jan 7, 2015 2:26:15 GMT
Whoa! Everyone jumped in while I did the sleep and work thing.
re: houses While I really like the idea of houses that honor different cultural branches of magic, two things came to mind immediately:
1. Those houses (Creole, Latin@, etc.) probably were not there when the school was built. Let's face it: seventeenth-century America was not particularly tolerant. I suggested House Tituba, but can you imagine the outrage of white students at being put into a house named after a black woman? So it's my idea (if we go this route) that those other non-European houses may have been instated during the civil rights movement at the request of the student body (because American students were a driving force for activism in the 1960s/1970s).
2. If houses are self-chosen, we might run into houses dividing themselves along racial or cultural lines. I know that if there were a house honoring a Chinese figure, that would probably be where I'd go - and I feel many minority students would feel the same. So instead of houses, you'd effectively have cultural enclaves - which of course might mingle at classes and other school events, but for living space, it'd be pretty monocultural. Which has its pros and cons!
re: class size I agree, I do find it difficult to believe that Salem would be the only U.S. school. But really, even if it were, it would be a typical small liberal arts college size - not that unbelievable. Hogwarts serves Britain and Scotland: a population total of about 62 million in 1990. Hogwarts has 1000 students at that time. Convert that ratio and you end up with about 6000 magical students at modern-day Salem. That's a mere handful compared to the number of students at many U.S. universities. I think we're just overestimating the ratio of those with magic to those without.
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Post by fishstyx on Jan 7, 2015 3:58:06 GMT
You're right. I guess I never thought about how few wizards there were in reality because the wizarding world seemed so large. As for houses, I think that the whole civil rights thing is super important. Plus, you have a bunch of stuff going on in America after the Salem witch trials that greatly affected the country. So all of these will in the end have an effect on the student body. However, I don't think it necessarily means that there is a need to add houses. If you start with general houses based off a certain type of magic (not specifically voodoo, but perhaps spirit magic which I think did exist then in the form of religious activities), there could be some sort of sorting where it isn't based off character, but by magical affinity. That way there can still be that one house that has a magical affinity for like necromancy or something and is considered inherently evil even though the people might not actually be bad folk. And we can avoid the awkwardness of the school being self-segregated. Once minorities are allowed to join after the civil rights movements, they will still be sorted based off their affinity and not based off their ethnicity or race.
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Post by mdf2711 on Jan 7, 2015 6:38:18 GMT
However, it always seemed to me that the typical interpretation of the Wizarding World was that they were highly egalitarian to modern, contemporary, and current issues on a spectrum of idealisms. Of course, they had their own prejudices, primarily related to blood status and species (half-humans), but ethnicity and race never seemed even the slightest problem for all of the strong minor characters in the series that were POC, such as Cho and Dean and Angelina and many others. I can imagine that America might hold slightly different opinions on such matters in their wizarding society but I would also imagine that such racial prejudices would be less than problematic in a modern era for the wizards and witches of Salem? However, that all being said, it could still be an interesting factor to discuss and develop. As for the ratio, thank you Wyndi, that was quite helpful. As I mentioned before, Salem is no AAU from my fanfic readings but it was structured like a large college with fraternities/sororities and these were similar to ideas that are currently being discussed which is why I thought it relevant to mention again. Each of the houses were named after highly famous magical creatures and beings (namely Bigfeet, Vampires, Werewolves, Pixies, Igors, and Zombies) and each had separate reputations, much like the distinguishing characteristics of a Hogwarts house, such as Bigfeet essentially being the Hufflepuff joke of the school and Vampires being dark and gothic and into teen romance novels or the Werewolves as natural athletes and jocks and the Pixies as flambuoyant and preppy and the Igors as brainy and crazy and the Zombies as troublemakers. Obviously, we would not steal such a system but I think that the outlying ideas of several houses named after magical creatures wouldn't be a bad idea, each would have an obvious emblem and symbol of pride and would likely derive traits from the folklore attributed to that creature or being. Of course, we seem to like the idea of sorting better though in any case? That seems alright. I guess if I were to point out one thing about choosing from magical fauna, this might give us the freedom discussed prior to give some representation to cultural magic of all of America, especially if it includes folklore of Native American tribes from the past. Which might give Salem an estimated date of around 1810, post-Lewis and Clark (unless we wish to elaborate that wizards had traversed the American continent in its entirety long before the Muggles)? Either way, there's a lot of creatures to pick from, I for one think that magical beasts such as Mishibizhiw, Thunderbirds, Wendigo, Jackalope, maybe a were-creature more commonly associated with ancient American culture (not directly brought over in ideology by Europeans) such as a were-bear, Sliver Cats, Chupacabras, Inferius or something voodoo-y and some even lesser known ones like Timmerdoodles, Gumberoos, Dingbats and the very recent (since WWII I believe) appearance of Gremlins. I would assume Americans, even wizard Americans, would love technology so much still that these finnicky devils would definitely be plentiful~ Plus, in doing a bit of thinking and research for these, I realized that lumberjack culture invented/"discovered" a lot of Native American common mythological beasts. Go lumberjacks, the unsung heroes of making stuff up~ Personally, out of this list if I were to make a condensed version, I would probably choose the Thunderbird, Jackalope, Chupacabra, Inferius/etc, and the last few but that might be too much. Though each have special qualities deserving of recognition. Well, opinions from the hive mind?
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Post by Wyndi on Jan 7, 2015 7:38:38 GMT
Racial prejudices certainly do continue to exist in America, but you are right, they would be less overt. In my post, I was talking about how race would influence the start of the school, and honestly, it's hard to make the argument that the Wizarding world existed in some sort of equality bubble at that point. Any wizard/witch exposed to the Muggle world would be exposed to ideas of slavery, etc. - and certain races/ethnicities didn't even appear on the U.S. radar until the nineteenth century.
imo one of the most obvious ways for racial prejudice to manifest at Salem (in the past, hopefully) would be to have culturally specific areas of magic, such as voodoo, to be thought of as "lesser" (seventeenth- and eighteenth-century students might use the term uncivilized) branches of magic. A (modern) equivalent to that is the way (mostly white) Americans do not view Asian Americans as Americans, but rather as Asians, because there is a "default" image of Americans, and that is white. Asian Americans aren't considered "real" Americans in that regard.
lmao House Inferius....Imagine all the zombie apocalypse jokes. Dude.
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Post by mdf2711 on Jan 7, 2015 8:15:49 GMT
Sorry if it seemed like I was downplaying racial prejudice in America in any way, Wyndi. To clarify explicitly, my statement was fully intended to apply to my view of modern wizarding society in America, not Muggle society, which I'm far more aware of and also very acutely aware of the racial injustice and other prejudices the society holds. Your point does make a lot of sense, Wyndi, and I think it is important but just like contention points in education such as the teaching of the evolution in public schooling, the argument for/against those branches probably still exist but I would presume in much smaller numbers and in much less popular agreement than in previous centuries. But the tensions could still be a fun aspect to play.
As far as houses, which would be best? Should we put it up to a vote and let others chime in ideas? How do you even vote on something like this?
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Post by Kaiser on Jan 7, 2015 8:29:02 GMT
I do agree with the point of raial prejudice being a downpoint at naming houses during the scool's instalment, so I'd vot on following mdf's idea of naming them after mythic creatures. But since I'm not entirely familia with all those creatures you mentioned, I'd vote for the ones I know, or have heard at least since given the fact I'm not from the US nor I have any connections (friends, family with whom chat frequently, etc) and I know them might be an indicator of their popularity outside the US and in my opinion, probably it would make them the more appealing for the houses naming. SO I'd vote for:
Thunderbird Wendigo, since its origin is basically of a man turning into a beast and going berserk and killing everything, it could be considered the "evil" house? Jackalope, I guess that was the bunny with antlers right? Chupacabra, though since I'm from Latin America, I've heard several interpretations from the creatures, most of the ones I've heard re way different from the US interpretation. Gremlins, I loved the first movie and I agree with the point you mentioned of them being plentyfull, it does make sense, my only concern would be that I'm not entirely sure they'd be magucal creatures because of their technollogy related origin.
We should probably just choose the 5-7 name options that are more appealing for house names and have everyone interested in the RP vote for their 4 favorites and then count down the votes and see the top 4 voted names?
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Post by mdf2711 on Jan 7, 2015 9:05:23 GMT
Or we can just pick the ones that receive any/a couple votes at least. I don't see why we need to have only four houses, I feel anywhere between three to like six or seven could be clean enough to keep track of and still make sense, it's not all Hogwarts, after all~ Anyway, some of your interpretations seemed to be based off of movies as opposed to folklore Kaiser so to clarify a bit for people who might not be aware or could use a refresher (also a quick Google/Wiki search should yield pictures and more in-depth information than I could ever dream of compiling) here's a list of the ones I mentioned and others can add as they please?
Mishibizhiw/Mishibijiw/Mishipeshu is the underwater panther and is one of the most important of several water beings among many Great Lakes and Northeastern Woodlands Native American tribes. In Native American mythologies of the Great Lakes, underwater panthers are described as water monsters that live in opposition to the Thunderbirds, masters of the powers of the air. Underwater Panthers are seen as an opposing yet complementary force to the Thunderbirds, and they are engaged in eternal conflict. Mishipizheu were said to live in the deepest parts of lakes and rivers, where they can cause storms. Some traditions believed the underwater panthers to be helpful, protective creatures, but more often they were viewed as malevolent beasts that brought death and misfortune. Thunderbirds are a legendary creature in certain North American indigenous peoples' history and culture. It is considered a supernatural bird of power and strength. It is especially important, and frequently depicted, in the art, songs and oral histories of many Pacific Northwest Coast cultures, and is found in various forms among the peoples of the American Southwest, Great Lakes, and Great Plains. Across many North American indigenous cultures, the thunderbird carries many of the same characteristics. It is described as a large bird, capable of creating storms and thundering while it flies. Clouds are pulled together by its wingbeats, the sound of thunder made by its wings clapping, sheet lightning the light flashing from its eyes when it blinks, and individual lightning bolts made by the glowing snakes that it carries around with it. Wendigo is a demonic half-beast creature appearing in the legends of the Algonquian peoples along the Atlantic Coast and Great Lakes Region of both the United States and Canada. The creature or spirit could either possess characteristics of a human or a monster that had physically transformed from a person. It is particularly associated with cannibalism. The Algonquian believed those who indulged in eating human flesh were at particular risk; the legend appears to have reinforced the taboo of the practice of cannibalism. It is often described in Algonquian mythology as a balance of nature. Wendigos were embodiments of gluttony, greed, and excess: never satisfied after killing and consuming one person, they were constantly searching for new victims. The Wendigo myth thus served as a method of encouraging cooperation and moderation. Jackalope is a mythical animal of North American folklore described as a jackrabbit with antelope horns or deer antlers and sometimes a pheasant's tail (and often hind legs). The word "jackalope" is a portmanteau of "jackrabbit" and "antelope". Reportedly, jackalopes are extremely shy unless approached. Legend also has it that female jackalopes can be milked - as they sleep belly up - and that the milk can be used for a variety of medicinal purposes. One of the few ways a Jackalope can be caught is by leaving out a bottle of whiskey, as it is the jackalope's sustenance of choice. It has also been said that the jackalope can convincingly imitate any sound, including the human voice. It uses this ability to elude pursuers, chiefly by using phrases such as "There he goes! That way!" During days of the Old West, when cowboys gathered by the campfires singing at night, jackalopes could often be heard mimicking their voices. Legend has it that they are dangerous if approached. It has also been said that jackalopes will only breed during winter electrical storms, explaining their rarity. Werebears are like werewolves but for bears and were reportedly more common in American mythos than that of actual lupine lycanthropes but I can't seem to find comprehensive, relevant information related to them, oops. Sliver Cats or Splintercats are nocturnal feline animals of great ferocity. It flies through the air with terrific speed and when it hits a large tree, it knocks the branches off, withers the trunk and leaves it standing like a silvery ghost. These dead snags can be seen in many parts of the Pacific Northwest. The splinter cat performs this feat that it is named after to expose bees and honey to eat. However, the act of breaking open trees with its head leaves it with a constant headache, which causes it always to be in a foul mood. Accordingly, one is advised to never approach a splintercat. Chupacabra is the goat sucker and has many variations in appearance in Muggle legends (wizards would have presumably either identified multiple breeds or only one and regarded the others are hoaxes?). The most common description of the chupacabra is that of a reptile-like creature, said to have leathery or scaly greenish-gray skin and sharp spines or quills running down its back. It is said to be approximately 3 to 4 feet (1 to 1.2 m) high, and stands and hops in a fashion similar to that of a kangaroo. Another less common description of the chupacabra is of a strange breed of wild dog. This form is mostly hairless and has a pronounced spinal ridge, unusually pronounced eye sockets, fangs, and claws. Unlike conventional predators, the chupacabra is said to drain all of the animal's blood (and sometimes organs) usually through three holes in the shape of an upside-down triangle or through one or two holes. An Inferius is a dead body, reanimated by a Dark Wizard, similar but intrinsically distinct from a zombie. They are created through the magical branch of Dark Arts called Necromancy. The Inferi are gaunt, skeletal beings that closely resemble zombies. Being human corpses, they have individual appearances based on the humans they were created from. Inferi have no free will, and cannot think for themselves; their purpose is merely to serve as puppets of the Dark Wizard who reanimated them. Due to their status as being unfeeling dead, the Inferi are immune to bodily damages such as slashing, and have great physical strength, enough to kill a human or drag them away. Due to their superior strength, they are especially dangerous en masse.
Timmerdoodles are a small mammalian creature that reported to live in the United States during the 19th and early 20th centuries. The Timmerdoodle will run up and bite you with its vicious jaws. It will never let go until it hears thunder. Once a man called Sam McSneed was bitten by a Timmerdoodle. It took two months before the thunder struck nearby and the beast let go.
Gumberoos are a fearsome critter told by the lumberjacks of emerging America in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The Gumberoo is said to look like a bear in shape but to not have fir. Instead it has thick leather like skin. This makes the beast invulnerable to bullets and arrows. Anything shot at the beast, simply bounced off. Its weakness was fire and was the only known way to defeat it.
The Dingbat is a flying creature reported by the lumberjacks of the emerging America of the 19th and early 20th centuries. It had large wings and antlers on its head. It short body was covered in feathers. The Dingbat had the unique ability to eat bullets in midair.
And finally, there is the Gremlin. These first appeared during the First World War when things went wrong with a French submarine. A crewman was reported saying ‘Gremlins sur la Manche’ on a radio before it cut out. Gremlins are like Boggarts and cause mischief but unlike the Boggart they focus on vehicles and technology. They are believed to be 2 – 20 inches high and are a cross between a jack-rabbit and a bull terrier. Unlike the movie, they are not the results of Mogwai and are just in fact tricky little devils that hide in technological devices and feed particularly off of a mixture of magic and electricity (and have been increasingly noticed by Muggles in small stirrings in technological events, messing with machines and electronics and everything they can possibly gorge themselves on.
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Post by mdf2711 on Jan 7, 2015 19:37:19 GMT
As a note, sorry to double post but it seemed important enough to mention, I've updated the thread with a poll for the creatures I mentioned and if anyone else would like to add to the list, feel free to say something but as no had responded so far, I just went ahead and made the poll. Voting for up to 6 options out of the 12 listed seemed fair and we'll go from there unless there are additions to consider~
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Post by Mini on Jan 7, 2015 19:48:50 GMT
so much has happened since I posted! not going to reiterate a lot of what was said since that would be pointless tbh.
Re: houses, I'm probably the buzzkill here but I'm not totally fond of the magical creatures for house names, and would rather have actual people as the names, but if everyone else is alright with creatures as houses i'll be able to deal.
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Post by fishstyx on Jan 7, 2015 21:07:45 GMT
I think I'm with minicat here. At least as far as not naming after magical creature. To me that's too much like high school where you're named "tigers" or something. Or "wildcats." And then I think of High School Musical. So if we could stay away from animal names I'd love that. But I, too, can deal if we decide that's easiest.
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Post by Kaiser on Jan 7, 2015 22:54:46 GMT
Or we can just pick the ones that receive any/a couple votes at least. I don't see why we need to have only four houses, I feel anywhere between three to like six or seven could be clean enough to keep track of and still make sense, it's not all Hogwarts, after all~ Anyway, some of your interpretations seemed to be based off of movies as opposed to folklore Kaiser so to clarify a bit for people who might not be aware or could use a refresher (also a quick Google/Wiki search should yield pictures and more in-depth information than I could ever dream of compiling) here's a list of the ones I mentioned and others can add as they please? Well, yeah, most of my knowledge of them, particullary Gremlins, comes from TV and movies. Though I have to say, the descriptions you posted about the Wendigo and Chupacabra are the ones I know and, at least on those, I was correct. The others, well, Gremlins are quite different from what I thought they were, good to learn something new actually, but with that new description, I wouldn't vote for them xD On the other hand, by reading the descriptions you posted about Mishibizhiw/Mishibijiw/Mishipeshu/Mishipopspipasoaps... the water panthers and Thunderbirds (since I had no idea of Thunderbirds description, I learned that today by reading your post too), I think those two would be a must to have, in my opinion of course, because given their opposite-ness(?), they'd be perfect to have a house rivalry in the school, though this one wouldn't be as harsh as Slytherin-Gryffindor, but still could work well for a rivalry between houses.
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